A conversation with Jackie Charles
Compared to everything from David Bowie and the Cure to nowadays Ariel Pink and Alvvays, Jackie Charles seems to be a person itself. At least this is my theory. Or perhaps Jackie is each and every one of us. In any case Jackie Charles members are responsible for shaping and give voice to a bunch of hypnotic melodies that transport you to your own inner world, with lyrics loaded of elements of depth that navigate dangerously through the borders of our own feelings and emotions. Listening to "Future Fantasies", their debut album is without a doubt catarchical.
Jackie Charles is alter ego and love child of the Norwegian singer and songwriter Kaja Bremnes (Voice and Synths) who supposedly met band members Andrew Steingold (Guitars) and Mesut Gürsoy (Drums) two years ago while dancing at iconic Berlin club Kit Kat. To talk about their first album released at the beginning of April, I had the opportunity to meet Kaja and Andrew (apparently Mesut couldn't make it since he was taking helicopter lessons!).
There is not much information I can find about them, and they seem to be very cryptic. In all honesty, I didn't know what to expect. However, if I kept any fear, my perception about them would change very soon.
There is not a lot about you that I could read on the internet. I have the feeling that you like keeping some sort of mystery around you, is it like this?
Kaja: “Well we have our secrets but we are also very open and honest as well. I think it's fun to play with it a little bit, keep people guessing.”
Andrew: “Yeah! If you tell the black and white story, people will have an exact impression about who you are and what you do but if you keep it ambiguous keeps people interested!”
Kaja: “I want people to just listen to the music because this is the main thing. And Jackie Charles is such a crazy person as well, so as Jackie she kind of goes rough sometimes!”
Andrew: “And she has many, many personalities.”
Kaja: “She is a bit schizo!”
Kaja comes from Norway and Andrew from England, so how did you end up living in Berlin?
Kaja: “For me it was for the music and the atmosphere. I had lived in Copenhagen before and I used to come here all the time because I had my band and older projects here. I had a lot of contacts and fans in music here but not so many in Copenhagen and now that I moved away I have tons of friends there! I think that was four years ago.”
Andrew: “For me as well. I mean I ́ve lived in England my whole life and two and a half years ago I decided to come to Berlin for a new start, to try something new. I had lived in Leeds, London and then Manchester but never outside of the UK. I had some great times but I decided to move to Berlin, both as a life experience and for the music.”
Kaja: “That's kind of what Berlin is, you come here to make a new start. A lot of people come here for the atmosphere. It's quiet open and free and there is a lot of interesting stuff going on and that's why I wanted to go somewhere it wasn´t super saturated in our field of music, because Berlin is more of a techno city and that is interesting to me because I like to play around with different genres and incorporate secretly into my music, so I love collaborating with people from other genres.”
We could speak a lot about this unique city and we all agree that Berlin is a city for all kinds of creative creatures but for a newly formed band, how were the beginnings when you moved here, were there many opportunities?
Kaja: “We were kind of outsiders in some ways, but then we have had some very good partners that we worked with over the last year, and at the same time we do a lot ourselves. We like to let things happen because I think that if you create something magical people will eventually connect with it and this is what we are trying to do. But we have had some nice partners like Nordic by Nature. They have been very good and they put us up from nothing, which is impressive of them I must say! I think that's really good and more people should do stuff like this. They should listen to the music and then decide to work with them instead of looking at their numbers or how many followers they have and all of that stuff.”
Andrew: “We are hoping that the music will bring people to us and actually when we receive emails, for instance Parallel Lines got in touch with us at Christmas time and they were like: yeah! we wanna play your album, we want you to come over and play for us. These moments gives you this hope that you need to continue. There are those people out there, those people who are willing to take risks and work with the music and musicians and acts that they believe in, and that is very nice! It makes you think that the world is not such a bad place!”
From left to right, Jackie Charles members Mesut Gürsoy, Kaja Bremnes and Andrew Steingold
"Future Fantasies" is the debut album by Jackie Charles. Recently released on April 2019, the album is an interior look of all of us, in a way it even is a portrait of a generation. But it's also a look back at the past, at the present and the future. And although it may look like a nostalgic album, its an assertion of self acceptance, a breath of air, an exercise in honesty from which to emerge victorious.
We are part of a generation educated solely for success. And nowadays there are more people than ever dealing with anxiety on a daily basis consequence of realizing that many of us most likely will not become or achieve what we were promised. And resetting your mind when you are already thirty something, it's not an easy thing to do.
How much of that is in the album?
Kaja: “I think there is a lot of that in the album! Our generation were expecting to do so well but then there aren't so many opportunities any more! We are the first generation who's expecting to make less money than the previous one and I feel like a lot of people are very disillusioned in some ways, because I think there should be a pride in whatever job you have but we have this feeling that we have to be the top guy or the top girl…”
Andrew: “But then, there is also the beauty in this way of thinking about this generation, that there is still hope!”
Kaja: “Its ok to be in your thirties and not necessarily have like a super well paid job or be super successful! Its ok to have a normal job! Its ok to feel that things are shitty as well! I think that we´ve been told that we ́re sort of supposed to seem positively, and I quite like thinking negatively sometimes and I think there should be more acceptable to be negative and also to be not so mindful all the time. You have to have a good but you also have to have a bad!”
Andrew: “And whichever way you go, whichever decisions you take you shouldn't regret them. You should own it; you should own your decisions and therefore enjoy what you are!”
I'm sure many good things will come out of this, especially in music!
Kaja: “Oh yeah! I think that we are in a similar place to where a lot of people where in the 80s as well, because there is a feeling that we don't know if the world is gonna even be around for much longer! We have the whole climate change and there is a very tumultuous time now, with a lot of anger and aversion and also a lot of hatred.”
Andrew: “And a lot of strange political events like nationalism, a lot to deal with now!”
Don't you think that contrary to the 80s generation there is less hope in today's generation and a feeling of laziness or defeat? In the sense of, why doing an effort if it's already too late for a change?
Kaja: “I think that's kind of true as well, there is a bit of a feeling that it's just time. History keeps repeating itself and there is a resignation in there, where you just feel like, what's the freaking point anyway? And I don't think that's necessary laziness. I think it's some sort of weird collective depression that we are all kind of experiencing. And I think it can change; and I think it will change because that's also how history kind of works, it goes up and down. So it's not all bad but that's what is interesting, to write about that as well, the kind of in between that space. It's not all bad, it's not all good but it's kind of, we're human, you know?”
Andrew: “But you ́re right when you say it's good for creativity! Like negative events are good for creativity, like for instance how many great bands have come out in Manchester where it rains 320 days a year!”
Kaja: “But we ́re not one of those bands who just write about the negative either. We like to do a bit of both, the ups and downs. I think it's a very interesting thing to write about how you can sometimes feel happy and shitty at the same time. It's not always black and white. It's not one or the other. There is a lot of ambiguity in the human experience, we exist here and now but then, how do we all work it out?”
Kaja Bremnes from Jackie Charles. Photo by Knut Åserud
How was the creative process to make this album?
Andrew: “Kaja is the mastermind! She creates all the songs, the ideas for the songs and then we collaborate. I add some guitars here and there and the Mesut will also do his thing but I think the main influencer is Kaja. That would be the honest answer.”
Kaja: “I normally make demos and then i bring it to the band and we all work it out together . We are all very into music , we all are very broad in the sense of what music is good and it doesn't limit ourselves to certain genre. I love incorporating stuff from different genres and playing around. I said in the past that it's kind of the Beatles approach, every single song we look at them as a story and how do you best tell the story with the music surrounding it because for me it's all about the songwriting.”
Andrew: “So the content of the song defines or affects the musicality.”
Kaja: “So we are trying to find the right vibe. It's a very elusive thing and it's very hard to know when it's finished as well. It's a bit like how painters have to know when to stop painting.“
Andrew: “I think Picasso said the painting is never finished, only stopped!”
Kaja: “Yeah! Because we are all about keeping certain touches of humanity in the music as well, so it's about trying to keep some sense of honorability or some sense of fallibility so that you can have certain things that are not necessarily 100% because for me that becomes mechanical and I think it's interesting to keep the life on the music. So we try to keep some of the mistakes, not the worst ones obviously. There are no mistakes, only happy accidents!”
Jackie Charles debut album “Future Fantasies” was recorded in the villa of Rudi Schenker, the guitarist of the legendary German band The Scorpions. How did that happen?
Kaja: “That's a fun story! The Producer (from Propeller Recordings in Oslo) is German and his father is a gardener. He has a really great garden center but he is also the private gardener of Rudi Schenker and he knew that there was a studio there and Rudi was trying to get bands to the studio to record so when they asked me...it was really cool! Common, I like that kind of stuff, its random and funny! It was a great studio.”
Andrew: “And also Jackie Charles is the only band other than the Scorpions to have recorded there!”
From all the festivals in Norway, Øya festival in Oslo probably is the most famous one and precisely at the Norwegian festival it was where Jackie Charles made their live debut as a band. How was Øya festival?
Kaja: “It's a lot of fun! Øya Festival was always my favorite one in Norway because they are willing to bet or gamble on new and interesting stuff. They just don't go for the big headliners, they also put a lot of new and interesting music. I think they really won by doing this because people are craving for new and interesting music and you don´t want to expect that people are dumb. You want to give people credit and if we you put on great stuff then people will come and see it! I think so and I hope so!”
It takes time to build an audience and a reputation, but many festivals now seems to be in a rush to grow and have revenue. I personally doubt this model can be sustainable.
Kaja: “It's always harder to keep the credibility or to try to walk that line of being true to who you are. I think that's always gonna take more work and when you are doing something that's different, it's a lot more work.”
Andrew: “But I think also in some ways, we're musicians not necessarily business man. A lot of this successful bands are maybe more into business and they know what they are doing by filling applications to get funding and festivals so they have like this all package with all the boxes ticked. I don't know how great we are in this side of the business, I mean we can do the music but the business side is tricky.”
Kaja: “There is value in trying to make something different and i think in the long run that is what wins. You have to never give up, just keep doing your thing. I saw this documentary about Dr Dre and he was talking about how you have to not look about what other people are doing. You have to try to do your own thing. But of course you have a lot of doubts! Will I be doing the right thing? It's like a weird roller coaster, when one minute you feel great and then it's like…!”
Andrew: “I read an article recently as well that Weezer, when they brought out their blue album they only sold 80 copies in the first months or whatever, and the record label (Geffen Records) had printed out 10.000 copies and Weezer went like: Oh shit! What do we do now? But then they just kept touring, kept doing things and believing in what they were doing and then somehow the album blew up! It's the story that gives everybody hope!”
Kaja: “That's the thing, when you are in it, it's not that fun! You are always hoping but then, if it all goes to shit at least we did our best, at least we didn't give up, at least we tried! There must be someone there that could connect with this, and we see it when we play live, people connect with it. And this is all I want to do, I wanna make that music that I was listening to when I was 16. Something that means something!”
Andrew: “Like give people the stories but then keep it a bit ambiguous so they can also find meaning in their own lives, that's also important.”
Kaja: “Yeah! This is why I never really explain the songs explicitly because I want everyone to listen to them and make their own story or feeling or connect with it in terms of how their life is going. So I don't wanna be like, this is what the song is about.”
After recent shows at Acud Macht Neu and Dodo Beach Records, upcoming shows from Jackie Charles will be on June 21st in Berlin (Germany) for Fête de la Musique and on June 27th in Harstad (Norway).
Cover photograph promo Jackie Charles
